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Rather than answer or post in the other thread with Off-topic answers* I have chosen to author this new Thread. Background: Our organization was founded in 1989. In 1995 we began to look at a web presence* and we assigned a few of our staff to spend the next few years participating in discussion groups* such as Prodigy* CompuServe* AOL* and UBB boards. What they discovered included the following:
Originally Posted by ZippySLC Quote: Originally Posted by David Copeland 1) This is the first major version where I don't think VBulletin put a lot of effort into designing the look* feel* text* fonts* colors* etc. In all previous VB major upgrades* the look was sharp* crisp* and gave the view a feeling of quality. Yes* it may only be a minor change in making it look like its worth $260. But as a customer when I buy a Cadillac* I don't expect to see a cheap looking bucket of bolts and steel glued together* even though the motor train and everything under the hood may or may not be superior. I expect to see the leather seats* wood panels* custom looks* and so forth before any release. If VB did not put quality effort in the cosmetics of the software look* then what else did they compromise under the hood?? 2) For $260 (Retail)* I should not have to make the look of the software as if it was quality. It should look like quality out of the box. 3) I suspect there will be sample beta sites to go to* but why should I be required to modify this software to look any better? Sorry* VB* but this look reminds me of some really cheap free software out there. We only have 40*000 members (and we are a paid site)* but if they saw this cartoon and faded look* it would diminish the value we are presenting to our customers. 4) And more importantly* as I have asked in the previous post about a courtesy refund offer after the final version is released* I feel there are other compromises under the hood. Who knows? The operating system factors* php* and other internal engine parts may be so far away from anything in the Ver 3.8 engine* that it just won't work effectively without major customizations and hacks. Above all* I would like assurances that either a courtesy extension for my $130 payment (due Friday) can be approved* and if not a courtesy refund is made available after I see what I am buying. David That's your opinion. I personally think the look of the new vB looks miles and away better than any of the older versions. No* you're just being a jerk. Why would you not open a support ticket or email sales directly rather than try to stir up the hornets nest here? Since you think there have been compromises under the hood* do you plan on doing a code review before you run this live? Or are you really just whining because you want to get your $130 back if you don't like the default style* which is pretty much expected that the end user (that's you) will change. Yes* my comments here are my personal opinion* and I am thankful for the VB Rules which permit personal opinions. Calling me a "jerk" is of no offense to me personally* but it offended other members who read your comments. But the name calling would have gotten you a response from admins and moderators on scores of other forum sites. If the name calling is acceptable on your forum* then it is your choice to permit it. There are other grammar choices to choose from when member wishes to attack the merits of a post without making it personal. Definition: Jerk "Noun. An idiot or stupid person. An insensitive* selfish* ignorant* cocky person who is inconsiderate and does stupid things." Support Tickets versus Posting a Thread? I chose to get feedback and other opinions from forum members before considering a Support Ticket. As it turned out* the VB Staff replied to my thread and offered additional insight before my formation of an action to follow up with. As it turned out* the same VB Staff person in my thread was the one who helped me make a decision in my private support ticket. I believe VB Support Staff read the public threads in order to get needed feedback on their products* pricing* and policy. Twenty (20) heads are better than one* and the thread now serves a purpose for others to follow. Hornets Nest? That is an interesting characterization of respectful free speech within the forum rules. You will notice that true hornet nest topics have been removed. My thread remains open. And most of the posts are from respectful members who offered real help and opinions worth reading. Compromises under the hood versus whining? Read my Cadillac analogy above. Since I have made the purchase of VB 4 Suite* I have explored some screen shots and have determined VB 4 Suite (for the most part) has a superb engine under the hood. I also know for a fact there will be additional Patches released after the Final Version is offered. Buying a first year car change out (or a first year new Windows Operating System) has always proved that the under the hood parts of the first product were compromised compared to the proven model to follow a week to a year later. As for your characterization of me whining* again I find it interesting. Definition: Whining "To complain or protest in a childish fashion. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone. A subdued regret or lamentation." On the other hand* customers who whine about anything (such as your whining about my posts) can serve a higher purpose for the vendor to obtain feedback from that one customer out of every 100 customers who have the same concern or complaint. Wanting a Refund if I don't like it? Sure* why not. I have been a loyal customer for ten years* have purchased every new edition VB has released. But this product is unlike anything in previous years (with maybe the exception of the VB 4 Forum Software Edition Only). Do I expect to use my courtesy refund request? No. But its nice to have it. Even Costco offers a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee on all DVDs* Software* everything in their store. I don't abuse their offer* but I happy to have the guarantee. I just end up buying more! Quote: Originally Posted by ZippySLC Quote: Originally Posted by Aeolian lets not call names* looking at david's user info i can say he has been here longer then some developers and if he does not like something "now" then there is a good reason for that. i am not worried about money or refund* but if the end product is something i dont like then i will have to think about it... i know u can customize the look and what not but i am paying good money for something that should be at least half descent out of the box. I don't really care if he's been using vB since 1.0* he's being passive aggressive and stirring up a hornets nest when he shouldn't be. Plus* with his "tenure" here he should know better. If he doesn't like the look of vb4* or doesn't like the pre-sale policy* or wants a refund then she should go and look at other software or wait until it's to 4.1 before he upgrades to it. Passive Aggressive? Hmmm. There's another interesting characterization* except this time the title does not apply to either my thread or my actions. Definition: Passive Aggressive
My Tenure does not mean anything? Answers:
My opinion is one of 268 other members (48%) of those who chose to participate in a VB Poll. Only 22% (122 members) voted they like it. May I suggest you post your vote in the Poll* provided you missed voting. As for the notion that looks means the under-the-hood engine is lacking too* I have a different opinion on that since I have made the purchase. Yes* I can modify the look. I suspect VB (based on the POLL) will be improving the look soon. If there was no "whining" or complaining or polling* then they would have probably left the look the same. Again* respectful free speech serves both the prospective customers and VB (who will get more sales when the look is revised) Quote: Originally Posted by ZippySLC Well* I have 1*039 members on my site* have rules* no oath or "code of ethics*" or require real names (although several members do use them) on my forums* Congratulations on your forum. I wish you the best. Quote: Originally Posted by ZippySLC but if someone came on there and started whining and being passive aggressive (waah* I don't like the fonts* so rather than just change the text size in my browser* let me make my posts obnoxiously large) they'd be banned. Please read Items # 2* 3* 4* and 19 regarding those who may ban and those who take a different approach. Quote: Originally Posted by ZippySLC It's great and all that you have some really large board and make money from your community* but your $130 to upgrade your license is the same $130 that it cost me. So it's really a non-issue to start trying to throw your weight around with your 40k user site. Weight? Yes* I could lose a few more pounds. But again* your characterization of anyone throwing their weight around here may be better found in the deleted threads. I don't believe I have to throw my weight. My credentials are what they are. And yours are too. To some members* your mention of having over 1000+ forum members is an awesome challenge to obtain. I have seen many active forums which only have 100 members. If I had a new forum and looked at your statistic of over 1000 members* I certainly would not take offense in thinking you were boasting about your success in an effort to belittle a new forum owner. I would look at exploring your forum to find out how I too can build members. You (and others) can be a positive role model for newcomers* if you choose to be. Quote: Originally Posted by ZippySLC And* the funny thing is* all of this whining and crying and you ended up buying it anyway. Of course! If you study Sales you will find that a salesperson wants to hear questions and inquiries about the quality of the product or service offered. Salespersons do not want their customers to be silent. They use the dialog to sell the product by answering the questions* complaints* and other issues. They inform the customer (very much like what VB Staff did in my other thread). And if the salesperson feels they can make an adjustment to their offer* they will do that (for sure* because we have already seen better adjustments in the VB 4 offer since yesterday). Quote: Originally Posted by ZippySLC By the way* if a user pays to join your site and doesn't like it* what's your refund policy? Answer: 100% Satisfaction Full Refund. (If products are involved* they receive a Refund Authorization to mail the products back to us) We also have an A-Rating with the Better Business Bureau who has tracked our customer satisfaction for the last decade or so. Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by lapta06 I think everyone has seen this post in the wrong light. Frankly* if some of the members who posted here were posting at our site* their posts (not the whole thread) would have been censored. I guess that is why our forum has a reputation of having one of the most strict forum rules* oath* and code of ethics that all 40*000+ members must agree to* all using their real first and last name). On the other hand* some of the members who have posted here have been very respectful of my intentions. If they wanted more clarity from me* I tried to comply. I am grateful for the on-topic helpfulness* and I will try to avoid reading where someone wanted to pee on my carpet in the confines of my own thread. Quote: Originally Posted by lapta06 VB are selling an unfunished product* which i personally think is wrong* but hey nothing to do with me how they market the product! It's like selling a car with a brand new engine* but not really sure how the engine will run or even look at the moment. (See my Cadillac story above. Then again* there are customers who will faithfully buy anything because they want to be counted in on a deal. Sometimes what they buy turns in a lemon. I honestly don't think the original founders of VB would have permitted cancelling owned licenses and then insisting on buying an unseen untested product at a discounted that is higher than the owned license was. Reputation is everything in business. In our business we have paid members going back to pre-internet who have a less expensive annual fee than current members pay. But it is the loyal customers we developed from 1989 that are still selling our service and products by offering their testimonials which produce sales and more customers. What VB has done is isolated may of those loyal customers who bought ten years ago (see my Join date). So if my colleagues ask what forum software to go with* I can no longer say VB because I simply do not know what the final version will look like* in addition to it being more expensive. Quote: Originally Posted by lapta06 A refund option will never be offered. I am beginning to feel the same way. My support ticket asking for an exception if I were to buy today was misinterpreted by their answer. I followed up with clarity* * * (Outdated Comment: "but they have no yet responded and the clock is ticking. I suspect I will pass on the whole upgrade until next year when the full version has been released* along with the normal patches that always come with full releases). Quote: Originally Posted by lapta06 Not being given the option of a 30 day trail is a bit of a kick in the teeth but its something you have to live with. The real question is how long will it be before its worth paying for VB4? Most customers who have complaints on any product or service rarely speak up. I am one of those who do* because I know how important it is for my customers to let me know what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong. My business professor said* "Only one customer out of 100 customers who have the same complaint will make the effort to contact upper management." I think some of us here have spoke up with respect and necessity. Like you mention* it may not amount to any improvements or changes. But they can no longer use the excuse their customers never informed them. Thank you so much for your post! David __________________________________________________ ____________________________ To All* The above quotes and responses should be helpful in making up your own mind as to how you wish to manage your forum. Then again* if you choose to take an opposing view* then you certainly have the right to do that. In either event* we should be able to learn about other views and other personal opinions. Again* my suggestions* comments* and opinions are not for everyone. Thank you for your patience* David __DEFINE_LIKE_SHARE__ |
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We have eliminated flamers* topic baiters* and spammers - Modified Forum Rules/Oath | محروم.كوم | منتدى أخبار المواقع والمنتديات العربية والأجنبية | 0 | 11-01-2009 09:50 AM |
We have eliminated flamers* topic baiters* and spammers - Modified Forum Rules/Oath | محروم.كوم | منتدى أخبار المواقع والمنتديات العربية والأجنبية | 0 | 11-01-2009 09:40 AM |
We have eliminated flamers* topic baiters* and spammers - Modified Forum Rules/Oath | محروم.كوم | منتدى أخبار المواقع والمنتديات العربية والأجنبية | 0 | 11-01-2009 03:00 AM |
We have eliminated flamers* topic baiters* and spammers - Modified Forum Rules/Oath | محروم.كوم | منتدى أخبار المواقع والمنتديات العربية والأجنبية | 0 | 11-01-2009 01:40 AM |
We have eliminated flamers* topic baiters* and spammers - Modified Forum Rules/Oath | محروم.كوم | منتدى أخبار المواقع والمنتديات العربية والأجنبية | 0 | 11-01-2009 01:30 AM |